Interview with the
Minister --Part 1 of 2
Part 2 of 2
The following is part one of an interview with ICG minister, Chris
Cumming which took place between 29-31 December 2011.
Q: Are
you a minister of the Intercontinental Church of God?
A: Yes.
I was ordained by Garner Ted Armstrong at Lake Tahoe during the Feast of
Tabernacles in 1998. I have been a minister 13 years.
Q: When
were you baptized?
A: 3 January
1971. I am entering my 41st year.
Q: Do you
pastor a church?
A: No, I do
not. According to our
doctrine on the ministry, I am unable to serve as a local pastor as
I am serving as director of the Web Site Office.
Q: What
does the doctrine say in this regard?
A: In
paragraph five under, "Doctrinal Overview" we read:
"Thus an effective minister will be sensitive to the needs of all
humanity, but he will always save his greatest efforts and energies for
his own congregation over which he has been given spiritual charge."
Clearly I put my greatest efforts and energies into the Web Site Office.
Q: Are
ministers of the ICG infallible?
A:
Absolutely not!!
Q: Is
your ministry a calling?
A: Yes it
is. Paragraph six of the
doctrine on the ministry, first sentence: "The ministry is a
calling."
Q: Who
chose you to be in the ministry of the ICG?
A: God did.
Paragraph six of the
doctrine: "This means that God Himself chooses who should enter His
ministry, rather than man himself solely making that decision (John
15:16).
Q: What
label does our doctrine give the minister?
A: That of
spiritual servant. Paragraph six of the
doctrine.
Q: Did
Jesus say that you are to be a servant?
A: Yes He
did. Matthew 20:25-28 as quoted in the last paragraph of the
doctrine:
Q: Are
ministers some how more special or on a higher plane than those in the
congregation?
A:
Absolutely not. In paragraph seven of our
doctrine on the ministry it says:
"The actual organization of the ministry in the Church of God
follows generally the principles as outlined in 1
Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4. It was not Paul's intent in these
passages to create a permanent hierarchical structure for all
generations of the church."
Q: Do
you, as minister, exercise dominion over the congregation? Do you
lord it over the congregation?
A:
Absolutely not. In the ninth and last paragraph of the
doctrine it says:
"Those who hold this office reflect the words Christ spoke to His
disciples, "You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion
over them, and they that are great exercise authority among them. But it
shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let
him be your minister (servant); and
whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant (slave):
even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto [not
to be served], but to minister (but
to serve), and to give His life for ransom for many" (Matthew
20:25-28)."
"Those who hold this office reflect the words Christ spoke to His
disciples, "You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion
over them, and they that are great exercise authority among them. But it
shall not be so among you."
Q: What
is the keynote of your ministry, Mr. Cumming?
A: Service.
Paragraph nine of the
doctrine, first sentence: "Service is the keynote of the ministry."
Q: What does our
doctrine say about how you, the minister is to treat the people of the
congregation?
A: In
paragraph three of the
doctrine it says:
"A minister will deal in a positive, helpful, encouraging, loving manner
with his congregation."
Q: Do you
stand between the firstfruit member and Almighty God?
A:
Absolutely not. Paragraph three of the
doctrine says:
"A minister is thus not an
"intercessor" between a Christian and God."
Q: As
minister, are you willing to serve the greater congregation in any way
necessary?
A: Yes.
Paragraph two of the
doctrine says:
"A minister should be willing to serve his congregation in any
way necessary."
Q: What
is the primary responsibility of a pastor of a congregation?
A: To
minister to the spiritual needs of his people. See paragraph two
of the
doctrine.
Q: Does a
minister police the life of the member or dictate their faith?
A:
Absolutely not. Paragraph three of the
doctrine says:
"He will not police their life or dictate their faith, but will
be instead a helper of their joy. "Not that we lord it over your faith;
we work with you for your joy" (2 Corinthians
1:24)."
Q: Is a
minister of God a professional in spiritual understanding?
A:
See the doctrine on
Healing, toward the end of the document under the heading,
"Ministerial Responsibility."
"A minister of God is a professional in spiritual
understanding."
Q: Is the
minister the spiritual leader of his congregation?
A: Yes.
See the doctrine on
Healing, toward the end of the document under the heading,
"Ministerial Responsibility."
"The minister is the spiritual leader of his
congregation"
Q: What
is a "spiritual leader"?
A: Look to
your dictionary for the definition of "leader." It states:
1. One that leads or guides.
2. Someone who shows the way.
Since the term is "spiritual leader" we have an individual called by God
to lead or guide the congregation in the spiritual path of the Salvation
Process. He does this leading via sermons, papers, Bible studies
and counseling [to mention a few].
We are not talking about any sense of being a boss, controller or one
who lords it over the congregation.
Q: Is the
ICG minister commanded to take great care not to abuse this position of
spiritual power, trust and respect? Must he be as aware of his
physical limitations as he is of his spiritual responsibilities?
A: Yes to
both questions. See the doctrine on
Healing, toward the end of the document under the heading,
"Ministerial Responsibility."
"The minister is the spiritual leader of his
congregation and must take great care not to abuse this position of
spiritual power, trust and respect. He must be as aware of his physical
limitations as he is of his spiritual responsibilities."
Q: In
what realm must the minister give his counsel and advice?
A: See the
doctrine on
Healing, toward the end of the document under the heading,
"Ministerial Responsibility."
"The minister must operate on the highest plateau; his
realm is the spiritual and this is where he must give his counsel and
advice."
Q: Is
there ever an instance where a minister has to administer spiritual
discipline. If so, why?
A: The
answers are in the fourth paragraph of the doctrine,
Minister of the Church:
"Occasionally, when circumstances demand, the minister must
fulfill his responsibility as a true shepherd by administering spiritual
discipline for the protection of his flock (cf. 1
Corinthians 5)."
Q: When
should the minister administer this spiritual discipline?
A: There are
a number is situations where this would happen but chief among them are
individuals who are spreading discord, spreading lies and slander and/or
who preach false doctrine.
Proverbs 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination
unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in
running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among
brethren.
Q: Is a
minister an agent or representative of God? Is the ministry a duty
position in the church? Is this position of the minister a
position of spiritual authority with the church?
A: Yes, yes
and yes. The answer to all three questions is yes. See our
doctrine on the Laying on of Hands and paragraph four under "doctrinal
overview."
"When a
minister lays his hands upon a person to confer the spiritual blessing
or gift, he does so as an agent or representative of God fulfilling a
position of spiritual authority within the Church."
Q: Is the
minister an agent of God unto himself or just through the church?
A:
He is an agent of God only through the church. Notice this
statement from our doctrine on the
Laying on of Hands:
"The minister, of course, is not an agent of God on his
own, but only through the Church. "
Q: Are
ministers of the ICG fallible human beings?
A:
Absolutely yes. Ministers are fallible human beings. Paragraph four of the
Laying on of Hands doctrine
states:
"The act of laying on of hands itself has special symbolic
meaning. It shows that God works through fallible human beings."
Q: Does
God allow these fallible human being ministers to administrate church
government?
A: Yes.
Paragraph four of the
Laying on of Hands doctrine states:
"The act of laying on of hands itself has special symbolic meaning. It
shows that God works through fallible human beings in administrating
church government."
Q: Do
ministers make mistakes and errors? More to the point, Mr.
Cumming, do you make mistakes and errors?
A:
Absolutely yes to both questions. I often make mistakes and errors.
When pointed out or discovered by me, I correct them. Correcting
error is one of the proofs of God's True Church.
Q: Have
you ever preached something in error in a sermon or paper?
A: Yes.
It was corrected.
Q: Is
making an error in a sermon the same as preaching heresy?
A:
Absolutely not. Most all heretics purposely preach heresy or have
fallen away and been given over to a reprobate mind and thus preach the
heresy. Firstfruits repent of error and continue in the Salvation
Process.
Romans 1:28-32
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,
covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit,
malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection,
implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things
are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them
that do them.
Q: What
is a heretic?
A: A person
who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents
from the officially doctrine of the church where he currently preaches.
Q: Does
end time prophecy speak to a time when individuals in the church begin
smiting brothers in the faith?
A: Yes.
Notice from Matthew:
Matthew 24:45-51
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made
ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so
doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his
goods.
48 But and if that evil servant
shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants,
and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for
him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the
hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [emphasis
mine]
Q: Has
anyone from the Body of Christ ever attacked you?
A: Yes.
I have been attacked [as described in Matthew
24] a number of times. Most every minister has, at one
time or another, in my experience, been attacked in some way.
Q: Do you
preach personal opinions regarding doctrine and/or the Salvation
Process?
A:
Absolutely not.
Q: What
do ministers preach? What do you preach, Mr. Cumming?
A: The Word
of God.
See our doctrine on the
Church of God where it states:
"Local Church services also provide the community, as
well as the membership, with an open meeting to hear the truths of God
that the minister expounds from the Bible."
And now ending Part One of this two-part sermon, I want to end with the last
question in the interview.
---end of interview as of 31 December 2011.---
Note: This paper is not necessarily completed. As
other questions arise about the ministry and specifically my ministry, I
will be adding to this piece.