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Portland, Oregon Church - Affiliated with the Intercontinental Church of God and the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association |
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SUBJECT: Humans turned to Spirit Beings at the Return of Christ
QUESTION: Do the firstfruits fight with Christ and the angels after they are turned to spirit beings at the return of Christ?
ANSWER:
What DO we know?
1. We know that when Christ returns all eyes will see Him. This can only mean one thing. It takes Him 24 hours to descend from the first time He is seen till He touches down in Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This verse is our verification of the above.
2. We know that we rise up to meet Him in the air. We know that the firstfruits are changed to spirit beings at that moment. How else could we rise up in the air? We do not meet Him on the ground.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:52-54 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
3. We know that the Beast power attempts to kill Him as He returns.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
4) We know that He fights the Beast power. We know that we are right there when this happens, as spirit beings.
Revelation 17:12-14 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Note: Verse 14 is the definitive verse that has Christ making War and we are with Him as He does this.
Revelation 19:19-21 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Zechariah 14:4-19 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Let us add to this excerpts from Mr. Armstrong’s booklet, “Coming Soon—An Invasion from Space!” http://www.garnertedarmstrong.org/pubs/coming.htm
Now Mr. Armstrong has stated in sermons that the resurrected saints will rise up in the air to meet Christ in the air and that together we would defeat the enemies seeking to fight Him at His return.
If you read the above booklet, he never actually states that the saints are necessarily killing anyone. However both events (the battle and the resurrection of the saints) take place at the same time. Clearly it would appear that Christ and the angels do most of the work, if not all. I would not rule out the saints engaged in battle however. If Christ saw no need for the saints to be a part of the battle, why not have clear distinctions in the text, which is to say, why not describe the return of Christ with a clear break between the battle and the resurrection of the saints. One answer might be that we are there to witness this final battle that confirms His position as King and Ruler of this Earth and all nations.
Notice some excerpts taken in chronological order from the booklet:
EXCERPT 1---He makes war at His return. Army of angels with Him
Notice the graphic description of Christ's coming, and what He will do as His very FIRST ACT after standing on the Mount of Olives: "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war." This is hardly the description of Christ which is in the minds of millions of church-going, professing Christians. Many would shrink in horror from any suggestion that their "Lord" would MAKE WAR! Yet, this is precisely what He will do!
John SAW, in graphic, close-up, Technicolor vision, the INVASION of this
earth by Christ at the head of His army from space. He said, "His eyes
were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a
name written, that no man knew, but he himself. "And he was clothed with vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God [Read John 1].
"And the armies [countless millions of powerful angels!]] which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword [metaphor for His commands], that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God [Christ is coming in FURY to pour out unrelenting JUSTICE upon evil nations].
EXCERPT 2---Saints (new spirit beings) meet Him as He returns, during His time of conquering.
Christ is coming at the helm of armies of millions of powerful ANGELS. There are no "raptured saints" with Him until He arrives close to this earth; close enough to be down into the atmosphere where the clouds form! Instead, the saints will be caught up to meet the conquering Christ as He returns, at the same moment that the DEAD are raised from their graves!
Read the plain truth of this from your own Bible: "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first [This is an expression which means CHRISTIANS; converted, praying, studying, overcoming Christians who have died! They are NOT "up in heaven" at all, but soundly ASLEEP in their graves!] :
"Then [When? THEN! At the LAST TRUMP, which comes at the very end of the Day of the Lord, and not a moment before!] we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The air is a part of this earth; the "atmosphere" which is material, physical; the mantle of life-giving gases which cloak the earth, protecting it from meteorites; the air in which clouds form. He is coming "with CLOUDS" and "every eye shall see Him." The clouds are generally from the surface up to about 40,000 feet, and sometimes higher.
EXCERPT 3---As He returns, angels gather the saints as they change to spirit beings and ascend to meet Him.
Notice further: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken [Never forget the sequence of events: (1) Tribulation, (2) Heavenly signs, (3) Day of the Lord],
"And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matthew 24:29-31).
Again, notice that the angelic hosts GATHER Christ's elect, both the dead in Christ, who are instantaneously resurrected to SPIRIT LIFE, and living saints who will be INSTANTLY CHANGED to Spirit life, and bring them up to meet the returning, conquering Christ. Paul wrote of this exact same stupendous event: "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
EXCERPT 4---As the invading army nears earth, the saints rise up.
As Christ's invading army nears the earth, a vast host of MILLIONS will rise from the earth! Tombs will open; the dead will rise from the sea; from nations all over the earth! Instantly, those who are converted, praying, overcoming Christians will be CHANGED! In a flash, their mortal, physical bodies will be changed into SPIRIT BODIES!
EXCERPT 5---His return takes a whole day. Beast fights Him. Saints are with Him as He fights. By the word of His mouth are the armies of the Beast destroyed.
Now, review what you have learned. Following the Tribulation and the Heavenly Signs, Christ will pour out the vast, awesome TRUMPET PLAGUES of Revelation 8, 9, and 10; and then the horrifying LAST GREAT PLAGUES of Revelation 16! Like the sun shining seven times brighter, He will appear in the heavens at the head of countless millions of powerful angels! A great trumpet blast will split the skies like a piercing, deafening sound! (Matthew 24:31).
The second coming of Christ will probably consume one whole DAY. He is coming as "the sun shineth in his strength," and the ENTIRE WORLD will see Him, which means His coming will take place during one full rotation of the earth on its axis.
The Beast and his armies will believe He is either an extra-terrestrial ENEMY, or think He and his army represent some super-weapon of space-launched vehicles from some other earthly enemy. They will launch their missiles, point lasers, cannon, guns of all kinds to the heavens, and attempt to FIGHT CHRIST and His armies (Revelation 17:12-14).
Note: Since the saints are there with Christ from that moment forward, one could conclude that some of the weaponry is pointed at them and they are fired upon.
But Christ, by His awesome, limitless, divine POWER, will speak a command, and these vast armies will suddenly be CONSUMED as they stand! Their hair and clothing will burn off in an instant! Their eyes will disappear in their sockets! Their flesh will melt from their bodies, and they will fall to the ground in a pile of nothing but bones! God says, "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south...And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth" (Zechariah 14:4-14).
No "collateral damage" here. No missed targets. Instead, the most awesome, instantaneous, effective killing power ever imagined!
Note: It would seem clear here that the command of God brings about the actual means of destruction against these armies of the Beast.
EXCERPT 6—Back tracking here to the two witnesses rising up some period of time before the saints. The armies of the Beast and those in Jerusalem see this.
"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them" [this is a special resurrection just prior to the arrival of Christ. They ascend up into the clouds, where they can be SEEN, not to the "third heaven" of God's throne].
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven [the earthquake is no doubt the same one which will occur just before Christ's return, mentioned in Zechariah 14].
---end of excerpt---
Notice the commentary on Revelation 19:19:
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies,
gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and
against his army.
And I saw the beast - notes on Revelation 13:1, 11. Compare Revelation
17:13.
And the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together - There
is allusion here to the same assembling of hostile forces which is
described in Revelation 16:13-14, for the great decisive battle that is
to determine the destiny of the world-the question whether the Messiah
or antichrist shall reign. There can be no doubt that the writer in
these passages designed to refer to the same events-the still future
scenes that are to occur when the Roman, the pagan, and the Muhammedan
powers shall be aroused to make common cause against the true religion,
and shall stake all on the issue of the great conflict.
Against him that sat on the horse - The Messiah-the Son of God. And against his army - The hosts that are associated with him-his redeemed people. See the notes on Revelation 19:14. ~from Barnes' Notes
Here is that commentary on Revelation 19:14:
Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses,
clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him - The heavenly hosts;
particularly, it would seem, the redeemed, as there would be some
incongruity in representing the angels as riding in this manner.
Doubtless the original of this picture is Isa 63:3: "I have trodden the
wine-press alone, and of the people there was none with me." These hosts
of the redeemed on white horses accompany him to be witnesses of his
victory, and to participate in the joy of the triumph, not to engage in
the work of blood.
Upon white horses - Emblems of triumph or victory. See the notes on
Revelation 6:2. Clothed in fine linen, white and clean - The usual raiment of those who are in heaven, as everywhere represented in this book. See Revelation 3:4-5; 4:4; 7:9, 13; 15:6. ~from Barnes' Notes
These two commentaries state two distinct conclusions:
1) We are there with Him at His return. 2) We do not seem to engage in actual warfare.
Before we conclude, we need to look at two verses some use to indicate that we might actually engage in killing at the return of Christ.
FIRST VERSE
Malachi 4:1-3 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Now the commentary…
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet. It shall be a great reversal. He that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he, that humbleth himself shall be exalted - Here the wicked often have the pre-eminence. This was the complaint of the murmurers among the Jews; in the morning of the Resurrection (Psalm 49:14), "the upright shall have dominion over them." The wicked, he had said, shall be as stubble, and that day (Psalm 4:1), "shall burn them up;" here, then, they are as the ashes, the only remnant of the stubble, as the dust under the feet. (NOTE: Dionysius) "The elect shall rejoice, that they have, in mercy, escaped such misery. Therefore they shall be kindled inconceivably with the divine love, and shall from their inmost heart give thanks unto God." And being thus of one mind with God, and seeing all things as He seeth, they will rejoice in His judgments, because they are His. For they cannot have one slightest velleity [mere wish or inclination], other than the all-perfect Will of God. So Isaiah closes his prophecy (Isaiah 66:24), "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men, that have transgressed against Me, for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched, and they shall be an abhorring to all flesh. So Psalm 58:10. The righteous shall rejoice, when he seeth the vengeance;" and another Psalmist (Psalm 107:42), "The righteous shall see and rejoice; and all wickedness shall stop her mouth; and Job (Job 22:19.) The righteous see and are glad, and the innocent laugh them to scorn." ~Barnes' Notes
There is nothing in the verse to indicated saints doing any killing. Again, they are seen as witnesses to what Christ does in defeating the enemy.
SECOND VERSE
Psalm 149:5-9 5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.
Notice commentaries on verses 6 and 7…
Psalm 149:5-9 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
The Song of Victory. Let the saints be joyful ... let them sing aloud. The pious ones are pictured as rejoicing in triumph and singing on their beds because safety is now their reward. The picture of the warriors praising God with "two-mouthed" (AV, (two-edged) swords in their hands is symbolic of the victories achieved in his name. Figuratively. God's saints today are to wield the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12). ~Wycliffe Bible Commentary
Psalm 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen-as the Maccabees (according to the prophetic anticipation here) subsequently did upon Antiochus Epiphanes' hosts. The fuller accomplishment of this scripture is in the triumphs of the spiritual Israel, the Church, by "the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God," "sharper than any two-edged sword" (Mark 6:20; Acts 24:25; 2 Corinthians 10:4; Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12). As it is written of the Captain of our salvation (Revelation 1:16). The full accomplishment shall be when He shall come again "in righteousness to judge and to make war, and the armies in heaven shall follow Him, and out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations"-namely, the anti-Christian hosts confederated against Him and his saints. ~Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary
Again, we see nothing to indicate actual killing by the resurrected saints.
CONCLUSION:
We have nothing definite or specific to say that the saints (new
spirit beings) actually engage in warfare or kill anyone. We are
DEFINITELY there to witness, firsthand, at His side, the defeat of all
enemies and His taking His rightful place as King and Ruler of the Earth
and all nations. Revelation 11:15 The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. |
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Portland, Oregon Church - Affiliated with the Intercontinental Church of God and the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association |