Menu-Driven Bible Study -005 - 23 September 2016

Text for Menu-Driven Bible Study 23 September 2016 See Menu MP3 Menu-Driven Bible Study Homepage

Topics Discussed:

Item 03 - Did the Work and Message of Garner Ted Armstrong die with him? [at the beginning of the audio]
Item 05 - Definition of "Independent Church" [begins at 03:44 of the audio]
Item 06 - The only true church of God? [begins at 07:04 of the audio]
Item 91 - Systematic Theology [begins at 24:11 of the audio]

03	Did the Work and Message of Garner Ted Armstrong die with him?

I received an e-mail one day asking, in a rather bitter tone, why we were carrying on the work of Garner Ted Armstrong, a man who died almost thirteen years ago. I was incensed.

The Work of God is not about the specific human individuals.

It is about the work they are doing.

Garner Ted Armstrong preached and spread the gospel message for almost 50 years.

That message is valid today, just as the messages from the ministries of Jesus, Peter, Paul and the other disciples are valid and fresh today.

Garner Ted Armstrong, for all his God-given gifts, talents and abilities NEVER convinced nor converted a person in his entire life.

Neither did Peter, Paul, Timothy or James. Neither did Noah or Moses or Elijah. Convincing someone or converting them is the work of God (John 6:44).

This individual, in his e-mail, strongly suggested we take away from the web site anything of Garner Ted Armstrong.

I replied that using his reasoning, we should eliminate the letters of Paul, the books of Moses and the gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. After all, they are quite dead.

Servants of God are just that...servants.

God says that He could even raise up stones to do His will (Matthew 3:9; Luke 3:8).

God is the focus and then His Work.

The human servants are merely conduit.

This same man writing to me condemned the idea that we have posted on the site, "Garner Ted Speaks Out". How could Garner Ted Armstrong, he reasoned, be "speaking out" if he is dead?

It is the message of Garner Ted Armstrong that is speaking out and not his human body.

Every time I read from Romans or Galatians, Paul is speaking to me just as if he had written those letters yesterday and sent them to me by Priority Mail.

Servants live and die, but the works God has done in and through them live forever!!

05	Definition of "Independent Church"

What is an independent church? Is there such a thing?

You will often hear of other churches in the Body of Christ referred to as "independent". "They are an independent church of God". Is this term accurate? Is there really an "independent church of God" somewhere?

1] Not governed by a foreign power; self-governing.
Isn't a church of God governed by a foreign power in the name of Jesus Christ?

2] Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant: an independent mind.
Do churches in the Body have independent minds not controlled by others? Aren't God's people and church organizations operating with the mind of Christ? Isn't the church under the guidance of Christ?

3] Not determined or influenced by someone or something else; not contingent:
Isn't the Church of God determined AND influenced by Christ?

4] Often Independent Affiliated with or loyal to no one political party or organization.
Is not the Church of God loyal to Christ? Aren't they affiliated to the doctrines of God...the Word of God?

5] Not dependent on or affiliated with a larger or controlling entity.
Isn't God, the Father the larger or controlling entity?

In fact, within the Body of Christ, there IS NO SUCH THING as an Independent Church of God. Whether you are church organization A or church organization B, you are established as an organization by one God. You hold the truth of the one Word of God. The stated commissions to the church are the same: 1) spread the gospel 2) feed the flock.

The question is, "If you believe yourself to be an 'independent' church, what is it that you are independent of?" There is only one God, one baptism, one Spirit, one Christ and one Word of God.

There is no such thing as an independent church in the Body of Christ.

06	The only true church of God

There are churches out there saying they are the only true church of God? Is it true that only one of the 350 groups from Worldwide is the true one?

Problem is, several of them are saying it? Who are they saying it to? Must this be stated?

There are churches that claim they are:
a) the only true church of God on earth and/or
b) the only rightful group designated by God to carry on the original work of Herbert W. Armstrong.

The overriding questions here are,

"Why would the true church of God have to make such a claim?"
What is the purpose of making such a statement?
To whom are they directing this statement?

If the Church is true: do they have a membership? How did they get there?

STATEMENT FOR THEIR MEMBERS? Was this statement of being the only true church in the world the element that brought them to the church?

John 6:44 says that Almighty God is the one who calls people to His true church.

It is God who brings one to repentance, baptism into the Body of Christ and the receiving of the Holy Spirit. He brings them to a specific church organization in which to carry out his or her given part of the Work of God.

It is a given that the church He calls them to is God's true church.

STATEMENT FOR THE WORLD? Is the claim of being the only true church for people in the world? Clearly not. Why would they care?

STATEMENT FOR THOSE COMING OUT OF APOSTASY? How could this be? If church A is claiming to be the only true church of God on earth, it is a given that they consider all the other churches with Worldwide roots to be fallen away and fodder for the lake of fire. Surely they would not be interested in having these damned sheep in their flock.

I see no reason on earth or in heaven why a true church of God would find it necessary to make this claim. Of some 300-500 groups with roots to Worldwide, some of the five or six larger groups make this claim. I suppose there could be greater number making this claim. By definition, most of these groups must be in error. There cannot be five or six church organizations that are ALL the one and only true church of God.

The claim is a vain one and serves no Godly purpose. Moreover, it is divisive and can give rise to envy, bitterness, jealously and hate. What true church of God needs this?

Making this claim is all about vanity. The true church of God [be it one or several organizations] has no need to make such a claim. The true church will be doing the Work of God and will be peopled by a harvest that only God, the Father can bring.

91	Systematic Theology

--What is Theology? What is Systematic Theology?
--Are firstfruits being judged on theology?
--What is Good Systematic Theology?
--What is Bad Systematic Theology.
--How can we prevent bad theology in our lives?

Systematic theology is the study of Christian theology organized thematically or doctrinally.

The word "theology" comes from two Greek words meaning "God" and "word." Combined, the word "theology" means "study of God." Systematic refers to something being put into a system -- categorical systems.

Systematic theology is how we created our doctrines. In fact, we call our doctrines the "STP" or "Systematic Theology Project."

---Paper going around on aspect of Sabbath.
---author began with a belief and then attempted to write STP to support.
---this is bad theology.
---better is to take subject and gather all scriptures = belief.
---let the Bible interpret the Bible.
---God determines what is truth, not man.

The doctrine of the ICG is the Word of God. Our doctrinal statements [the STP] are our explanations of what we believe.

---Systematic theology is used for trunk-of-the-tree doctrines
---Not used for PEBs. That is, to make common doctrine.
---members ARE judged on PEBs and theology they use.
---it would be wrong to attempt to make PEBs into common doctrine.
---example: meat offered to idols.

---Good theology does not make assumptions without proof.
---it does not ask for leaps of logic.
---it does not use reasoning that fails universal application.
---Example: from paper on Sabbath.

Contention: I must be right in my contention, for we never see Jesus eating in restaurants on the Sabbath.

Bad Systematic Theology [faulty reasoning]:

I never see Jesus driving a car. Should we not be driving cars?

I never see Jesus painting a house. Should we not paint houses?

no account of Jesus eating tuna fish sandwiches on Tuesdays. Same?

---answer to all questions is no.
---gospel accounts do not cover all things Jesus did on Sabbath.
---doctrines and PEBs must be founded in truth—not logic of man.
---eating or not in restaurants on Sabbath is a PEB.

---Restaurants Did Not Exist in Jesus' Day
---even if they did, they would be closed.
---restaurants did not exist till 16^th century.
---Wikipedia: first true restaurant found 1782.
---inns around in Jesus’ day but designed for travelers.

Contention: We should not eat in restaurants on the Sabbath or Holy Days for this constitutes what the Bible says is "buying and selling," something we read of in Nehemiah 10:31; James 4:13 and Revelation 13:17

Bad Systematic Theology [wrong definition or applying erroneous definitions]:

Nehemiah 10:31: And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

In the Bible Help, "Where to Find It In The Bible" we see a reference to the subject of "Business":

Sabbath merchandising, Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15–18.

In other words, we see described the Jews going to the marketplace, setting up stalls and carrying out business or merchandising or buying and selling. Nothing said or implied about spending money.

Commentaries confirm this. Notice this from another written commentary on the Sabbath and Nehemiah:

"Much later, after the captivity when the leaders of Israel were anxious to restore obedience to God, a governor named Nehemiah rendered some judgments about the Sabbath (Nehemiah 13:15-22). In those days some of the Jews were carrying on all their normal activities on the Sabbath day including setting up farmers' markets in Jerusalem.

---Some have taken this as proof that it is wrong to buy, sell, or even for money to change hands on the Sabbath.

---nothing in commandment about money changing hands.

What could be more clear? We are talking about work, labor and conducting business and not the specific act of buying something for money as an incidental action.

James 4:13: Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:

This verse is talking about business and even speaks to getting a profit from that business. It is not denoting the specific action of paying for something outside of a workplace or business that a member is running.

Revelation 13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

NT:59 Buy
agorazo (ag-or-ad'-zo); from NT:58; properly, to go to market, i.e. (by implication) to purchase; specially, to redeem:

NT:4453 Sell
poleo (po-leh'-o); probably ultimately from pelomai (to be busy, to trade); to barter (as a pedlar), i.e. to sell:

Again this is denoting business, being busy doing trade, as a peddler and doing work. We should not be operating a business on the Sabbath.

It is bad systematic theology to infer definitions where they do not exist in fact.

Contention: In Exodus 16, the children of Israel are given instructions about the collection of manna and its preparation before the Sabbath. These instructions support a principle that would preclude eating in restaurants on the Sabbath.

The author states in his paper...

"As we approach this subject, we must fully realize, first of all, that God wants us to know and understand that He is our provider (Yahveh-Yireh). When He was showing (reminding) the Israelites which day was His Sabbath, after they had lost track of it during their many years of slavery in Egypt, He commanded them: "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a Holy Sabbath to Yahveh. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil, and lay it up for the morning." Then Moses said, 'Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to Yahveh, you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day which is the Sabbath, THERE WILL BE NONE.' (Exodus16:23, 25-26).

"Now, I realize that this verse does not mention anything about buying, but what is the principle here?"

Bad Systematic Theology [asking the reader to make an impossible leap of logic in the name of principle]:

As stated earlier in this paper, the fourth commandment speaks specifically to refraining from work and labor and nothing specifically that would prohibit money passing one's hands. Notice:

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This commandment is clear: for six days shall you do all your labor and work. On the seventh, you will do no work. In Exodus 16, Moses is issuing instructions that match this commandment in both letter and spirit. Collecting manna took a certain amount of labor. It was not an easy task. Eating in a restaurant is in no way labor or work. It is not hunting or gathering. It is not baking or boiling of food on the part of the restaurant customer. The principle of commandment is to refrain from labor and work on the Sabbath. The instructions of Moses in Exodus 16 match this principle. The principle is about Working, not Buying. You cannot jump from a principle about Working to the subject of Buying and call it the same thing or the same principle. This is illogical and bad systematic theology.

This one paper I have been using as an example uses bad systematic theology throughout. Again, I care not how the reader feels about eating in restaurants on the Sabbath. See my notebook piece, "Faith Cannot Be Legislated!!" The point is not to accept bad systematic theology for any reason. Learn all you can about it so you know it when you see it. Keep yourself immersed in the Word of God.

---End of Text---

Questions Covered as of 23 September
The questions handled thus far highlighted in green. If you wish to hear one again, feel free to ask for that one again.
Up for this coming Friday are 60-74-75-80-20-22-27 as we have time.

1	26	51	76
2	27	52	77
3	28	53	78
4	29	54	79
5	30	55	80
6	31	56	81
7	32	57	82
8	33	58	83
9	34	59	84
10	35	60	85
11	36	61	86
12	37	62	87
13	38	63	88
14	39	64	89
15	40	65	90
16	41	66	91
17	42	67	92
18	43	68	93
19	44	69	94
20	45	70	95
21	46	71	96
22	47	72	97
23	48	73	98
24	49	74	99
25	50	75	100

back to the top

1	26	51	76
2	27	52	77
3	28	53	78
4	29	54	79
5	30	55	80
6	31	56	81
7	32	57	82
8	33	58	83
9	34	59	84
10	35	60	85
11	36	61	86
12	37	62	87
13	38	63	88
14	39	64	89
15	40	65	90
16	41	66	91
17	42	67	92
18	43	68	93
19	44	69	94
20	45	70	95
21	46	71	96
22	47	72	97
23	48	73	98
24	49	74	99
25	50	75	100

1	26	51	76
2	27	52	77
3	28	53	78
4	29	54	79
5	30	55	80
6	31	56	81
7	32	57	82
8	33	58	83
9	34	59	84
10	35	60	85
11	36	61	86
12	37	62	87
13	38	63	88
14	39	64	89
15	40	65	90
16	41	66	91
17	42	67	92
18	43	68	93
19	44	69	94
20	45	70	95
21	46	71	96
22	47	72	97
23	48	73	98
24	49	74	99
25	50	75	100

1	26	51	76
2	27	52	77
3	28	53	78
4	29	54	79
5	30	55	80
6	31	56	81
7	32	57	82
8	33	58	83
9	34	59	84
10	35	60	85
11	36	61	86
12	37	62	87
13	38	63	88
14	39	64	89
15	40	65	90
16	41	66	91
17	42	67	92
18	43	68	93
19	44	69	94
20	45	70	95
21	46	71	96
22	47	72	97
23	48	73	98
24	49	74	99
25	50	75	100